Debunking the price myth: Apple vs. Dell

Although Mac's may really be viable alternative at the top end there are plenty of users going I do not need that much computer espcially at that price.

If you don't need a top-end notebook, then take a look at the iBooks. I've had one for over 3 years and it's held up physically, and still runs Photoshop CS like a champ.

iBooks are intended for the "everday" user, and while I agree, I actually used my iBook to sucessfully run my graphic design business... so even though it's marketed as basic, it can do a lot more.

I agree with FDBryant3 that Macs may be better on the top end, but when I was shopping for an affordable desktop a few months ago, Dell had the best deal, even with a 3 year warranty. I'm not a gamer, so a P4 630 3GHz, 1GB RAM, 17" flat panel (admittedly crappy quality, but I use it as my secondary dual monitor) - and several other small add-ons - E510 cost me less than $1100. Can you get close to that with a comparable Mac? Look up RockOfVictor on dslreports for more system specs.

The rebates, and they are not even that, most of the time they are instant coupon codes, usually are not found on dell's website itself, but you need to track them on a deal finder website or something similar.

Though this lowers the price of Dell computers, it surely does not add to a pleasant shopping experience for the consumer.

Though I have been using Macintoshes for years now, I hope to make a 12" Macbook Pro (or maybe sans Pro) my first Mac of my very own. I love building my own desktops, but when it comes down to just hardware and its design, I do not think there is a laptop that I would consider purchasing besides a Mac, regardless of price.

One of the things that is being overlooked is the discounts that Dell has major discounts available.

Wow... I'm falling asleep at the keyboard here... I even previewed this and, of course, noticed my error after clicking submit this should read:

"One of the things that is being overlooks is that Dell has major discounts available."

I'm still new to commenting... is there a way to edit your comments after posting of which I am unaware? I couldn't find anything in the FAQ.

Excellent article. As to the comment editing - I believe this is not really a viable option, because one user could edit or delete their comments, and the thread could start to rapidly make no sense at all. A grace period for editing comments could be a good idea, though.

@alexanderj:

Have you ever posted anything on Digg? They use a system similar to what you have just proposed, and it works pretty well, though I think they give a bit too large of a window (like 3 whole minutes).

And I agree that that feature would be a nice addition to Newsvine.

Gosh, I actually haven't posted on Digg ... so much for my idea being original! :) But I think it would help remove the "crap, I messed up that lost post" posts.

I'll have to agree with you on this. I bought a Dell 700m last year for $1250 after a $750 off $2000 purchase. These coupons are readily available too, and in bulk. I bought mine from eBay for a penny, and there are always coupons available.

I've never seen Apple discount computers other than the education discount, which really is nothing compared to Dell's ridiculous coupons.

You should also consider that in the past Apple used a completely different architecture than PC's. There was a big difference in hardware and what the machines were usually used for (graphics, photo/video editing, 3D modeling). Configuring a PC that could outperform a Mac for those specific tasks would likely have cost more than the Mac.

If the PowerPC architecture, and RISC computing in general, had taken off in a big way with end users, the G4 and G5 processors would probably have been much cheaper. After all, one of RISC's benefits is being cheaper to implement than CISC.

Being able to run OS X and Windows on the same box is a real plus here.

Damn right it is, UNIX and Windows coexisting somewhat peacefully on one sexy-looking machine...

Oh come on now, that's a load of marketing tripe and you know it. The architecture used prior to Intel was no more tuned for graphics/video that my pocket calculator. Mac's have been and always will be popular with the artistic crowd.

The only advantage Mac's had, back in the day, was that Photoshop and other tools like it were developed for the Mac first. This is not the case now.

The only advantage Mac's had, back in the day, was that Photoshop and other tools like it were developed for the Mac first. This is not the case now.

That's not the case now, no, but it was in the past, which is what we were talking about: the past.

And they might have been more tuned. The PowerPC, being a RISC architecture, separated its LOAD and STORE instructions which would reduce the amount of memory transfers compared to the x86 (CISC) method, which included LOAD and STORE within other instructions. I'm no digital-image-processing wiz, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if an individual piece of data will be manipulated repeatedly, leaving it in a register between instructions (RISC) rather than writing out to memory, wiping all registers, and reloading the data (CISC) would be much faster.

Yeah, MS charges an insane amount for their Windows operating systems.

I don't know what else you are adding in there, but the upgrade price is a flat $98. It tells you that right on the customization page. Media Center doesn't cost any more than Home (if MC is even available).

@Andrew Harden:

Did you add the XP Pro as an upgrade through Dell's site ($98), or did you find the difference between the cost of a full copy of XP Pro ($300) and XPMC and add that to the laptop price?

Those were the prices I got from Dell's site by picking XP Pro, not adding it on at the retail price. I did those comparisons several months ago, so things may have changed since then.

I live in Holland and I did the same comparison for the iBook G4 once. That's a bit more complicated of course, but even for Apple's cheapest notebook the result was similar. If you want a Dell laptop with the battery life and other specs as close to the iBook as possible, you pay about the same.

I live in Holland too ;-)

Does anyone know if upgrading Apple laptops is as easy as upgrading PC laptops (Dell, IBM, etc)? I remember reading a few reviews of the original Titanium Powerbooks that had said that adding an AirPort card in yourself rather than having Apple do it was somewhat difficult (problems with the card not fitting properly, opening the case).

Generally, from what I understand, upgrading the laptop yourself is always a bit trick because everything is just so tight. Apple's cases are always a little tough to open, which can be a challenge in and of itself. I don't know how they've been reconfigured between now and then, but I personally would just as soon take it to an Apple Store or a certified technician and have them do it than attempt it myself.

Airport cards come standard in almost all Apple laptops I believe... And with the newer case designs, upgrading your RAM is pretty straightforward.

This is all good to hear, I was planning on picking up an iBook (or would that be MacBook?) once the Intel models are released.

I own an older iBook G4 (933Mhz) and I installed an AirPort card and RAM and the process took me less than 15 minutes.

I've also helped my father-in-law out with his 15" Powerbook, and it's harder to work with, but still manageable.

If you're looking for a great resource for fixing your Apple notebook, look no further than iFixit

I've used these guides countless times, and they're really in-depth.

That makes the Apple more expensive.

Not necessarily. You can find OEM versions of XP Pro for around US $100, and some Apple Resellers are even offering to do the install for you.

Is there any difference between an OEM XP disc and a retail XP disc?

Microsoft support is not supplied with an OEM disc. I believe a retail disc comes with so much costumer support provided by Microsoft, while an OEM disc is for companies such as Dell who sell Windows with their computers and can thus support Windows themselves.

You can buy an OEM disc as long as you purchase it with hardware (some retailers count a power or IDE cable as hardware), this is because the OEM is for computer manufacturers to use on new computers and is not intended for retail use.

I am glad someone came out of the windows induced high...

I think you mean concussion-induced fog (from banging their heads against the Windows® wall).

Apple Student discounts are not at a set price, but vary for each product.

Apple does come out with new "Operating Systems" (10.3, 10.4, etc) more often, and charges I believe $79.99 for updates. While Windows gives service packs for free, and the longer Vista is held back, the later the next OS will need to be purchased.

How long does the average Mac user keep their Mac compared to a similar Dell user and their Dell?

Dell's customer support had also been outsourced to India last time I called them. It was sometimes difficult to work through the support personnel's accent, and the overall audio quality seemed fairly low, too.

I don't know how good Apple's support is, though.

The reaction to the support being outsourced to India was extremely negative, and I think I read somewhere that Dell is slowly insoucing back to the US.

Dell's support just plain sucks. I wanted to re-install Windows as one does occasionally and found that the Windows Install program couldn't see my SATA hard drives. I'm not hardware expert, but I have installed Windows several times on various systems and have never come across a problem like it.

After waiting for about 45 minutes on hold, an outsourced support person talked to me and told me that my problem was a software problem and I needed to talk to the software support folks.

After another 45 minutes on hold, I was told I would have to pay $99 to get the support I needed. For installing Windows mind you. Fine, so I talked to the tech in the software group and was told that a setting in the BIOS needed to be changed in order for Windows Install to see the HD's. I made the change and presto, it worked perfectly.

The odd BIOS setting was, I was told, to improve HD performance. I have noticed no loss of performance with the setting the way it is now compared to the way it was from the factory. I get a feeling that this was a ploy to get a bit of extra cash from unsuspecting users.

The next day, I went to Dell's website and used their chat system to see if I could get the charges dropped since the issue was in fact a hardware issue. I talked to "Rocky" and "Uma" and was able to convince them to drop the $99 charge.

So over 3 hours of support conversations and I was able to install Windows which should have worked to begin with.

I can't speak for Apple's support. I haven't owned an Apple computer in well over 15 years minus a short amount of time with a dual G4 back in the OS 9 days.

They have their "Genius Bar" and you can make an appointment to talk to someone there. I actually like that concept. I just don't know how well it actually works.

Overall I like Apple's support. I typically don't like calling ANY support line, but they usually have an answer for me with a quick response time.

As for the Apple retail stores, the Genius Bar is great, and they really know their stuff. Once you sign in you can see your name on a big screen (at least at our Atlanta store) and you can freely wander around until your name is at the top of the list.

And just for reference, both Apple and Dell have support centers in India, whatever that's worth to you.

I have had horrid support from dell. Whenever i call, all i get is

Your call is important to us. {elevator music}You have # people in front of you.{elevator music}...

Paradox: Think about how many people use PC's to MAC's. now think about the commercials Dell puts on, attracting people who think they can get an amazing computer for 499$. more people use PC's therefore increasing the pool of morons who need Tech support every other day because they washed their PC with soap and water when someone said their desktop was too cluttered and they needed to "clean it up". It's a numbers issue.

...increasing the pool of morons who need Tech support every other day because they washed their PC with soap...

It might be a little unfair to call these folks morons. I think that a lot of people are still weary of computing, and the fact that they can't get some basic setup for $499 makes it seem safer.

I will agree that Dell's target audience are the basic, everyday and first time users out there, and these folks also need the most help.

You don't hear technophiles and IT junkies clamoring on about "I want a Dell soooooo bad!". These guys are buying the high-end stuff (not to say Dell doesn't sell high-end, it's just not they're core).

You read ctrl-alt-del webcomic, dont you.

I think people choose Dell because Dell is generally known for their cheap PCs, and by showing that a similarly equipped Dell is more expensive than a Mac (at list price) shows that the price argument really no longer applies, and logic would dictate that higher-end machines will be even more expensive. Here I've got a machine from both FalconNorthwest and Alienware, and with similar specs to the MacBook (the new 17" model in this case), the Windows machines come out more expensive (by several hundred dollars, at least) than the MacBook.

Falcon Northwest "FragBook" DR6800

• Intel Pentium 4 - 3.2 GHz
• 1024MD DDR2 RAM (512MBx2)
• 17" WUXG LCD
• 256 MB GeForce GO 7800
• Seagate 120GB 5400rpm HDD
• 8x DVD+-RW Drive
• Windows XP Pro
• TurboG 802.11g Wireless

Total: $4,777.61

Alienware Area51 m770

• Intel Pentium 4: 3.0 GHz
• Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 2
• 17" WideXGA display 1440x900
• 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 RAM
• 100 GB 7200rpm HD
• 8x Dual Layer DVD+-RW
• 256 MB GeForce 7800 GO
• Wireless 802.11b/g mini PCI card
• Bluetooth USB Adapter

Total:$3,047.00

MacBook Pro 17"

• 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
• 1GB 667 DDR2 - 1 SO-DIMM
• 120GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm
• SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
• AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
• 17-inch TFT Display
• ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB GDDR3 memory

Total: $2,799.00

These comparisons probably aren't fair insofar as the Alienware and the FalconNorthwest both feature faster Pentium 4 64 bit processors.

I think we could compare other PC vendors like Sony, HP, Gateway and Compaq, but Dell is the most popular and the company that is on top right now. There isn't anything to compare a Mac to, except another Mac.

My experience with all PC vendors, especially Dell has been negative. I owned a tower and a notebook, and both of them were unstable at best. Sony, HP/Compaq and Gateway are pretty similar in my opinion, and I've serviced all of those brands at some point or another.

What I really hate about OEM PC manufacturers is that proprietary software that you can get rid of. My cousin has an older HP tower, and every time he reboots all of the "HP Launch Center" comes up. We've been through the registry and can't get the stuff out of there. Even the boot-up screen has a giant HP logo that can't be taken off. I had the same thing with Sony's VIAO line.

At least with a DIY PC you can get rid of that crap. On a Mac, you can change the boot screen, and remove ANY piece of software including iLife... just drag it to the trash.

Andrew: true, the CPU is much faster in those, but wow, does that really justify a $2000 price difference?! I

Not sure, but I think that the Core Duo, even though it has a lower clock rate, is faster than the P4 in the Alienware and Falcon machine clock-for-clock, and definitely in performance-per-watt.

Compare prices on the Duo's 3-4 months from now and i'll guarantee Dell will have a better deal.

I think you mean "Lower price".

The MacBooks are retailing at almost the exact same price their G4 predecessors were.

The MacBooks are retailing at almost the exact same price their G4 predecessors were.

Your point?

It depends whether you choose 'Consumer' (adds the VAT at the beginning) or 'Small Business' (adds it at the end). See my below post for a full comparison.